tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3046071861494986299.post8594917610545665200..comments2023-08-26T05:08:54.898-07:00Comments on Magic, maths and money: Individuality and reciprocityTim Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06952723922503939504noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3046071861494986299.post-73096546792960818302013-03-08T07:28:16.110-08:002013-03-08T07:28:16.110-08:00While in contemporary economics the conventional w...While in contemporary economics the conventional wisdom is that the self-interested individual will resolve problems, I don't think this has always been the case. I think it entered into economics in the 1830s with Mill, and it was not in Smith. I associate the change in approach with Laplace's replacement of randomness by ignorance (a scarcity of data), this is discussed at some length in my SSRN paper http://papers.ssrn.com/abstract=2159196<br /><br />On the erotic aspect, the Merchant of Venice can be interpreted as a discussion of the four forms of love (friendship, family, erotic and "agape" or "charity"). For example, there is the erotic love between Portia and Bassanio and Jessica and Lorenzo, friendship between the servants and Lorenzo and Bassanio, a deficit of familial love between Jessica and her father Shylock. What is intriguing is the personification of the "highest form of love", charity, is in Antonio, "The Merchant of Venice", which is contrasted to Shylock's lack of charity.Tim Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06952723922503939504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3046071861494986299.post-83844108254144936712013-03-08T06:12:40.787-08:002013-03-08T06:12:40.787-08:00Ah interesting, I think perhaps reciprocity is als...Ah interesting, I think perhaps reciprocity is also an erotic force. we are bound to people we reciprocate with in the same way we are bound to people we copulate with.<br />We feel violated in the same way when the bond is breached in either relationship.<br /><br />Money is like a marriage certificate. <br /><br />Why do people cheat? I am skeptical it is due to uncertainty, but of course it is uncertain if and when people will cheat so I have to think about it.<br /><br />I'll have to puzzle further on the idea that uncertainty leads to collaboration. Isn't conventional wisdom (at least in economics) the opposite? Its the individual acting each in her own self-interest (and obviously in uncertainty of how others will act) that magically allocates resources resulting in the impossible to improve upon market? And that trying to reduce the uncertainty through central planning (communal effort) is inferior, always and everywhere.<br /><br />I am thinking about how the idea that individualism is the preeminent natural law needs to be beaten back. The communal has been so utterly demonized in the public debate. It is a trick now to say the obvious, but clearly collective action is often the best course of action. For example, now would be a handy moment to act collectively - through the government - to increase demand a little while so many resources remain idle. But is this not happening because there is not enough uncertainty to drive communal action?<br /><br /><br />Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15136541075745913165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3046071861494986299.post-77517413929986747852013-03-08T01:22:16.078-08:002013-03-08T01:22:16.078-08:00I can't explain the conclusions, it is a bit o...I can't explain the conclusions, it is a bit of a gut feeling.<br /><br />I think, again it is a belief not a theory, that reciprocity, the idea that debts are repaid, is a consequence of uncertainty. If there was no uncertainty we would not need the "moral" force of reciprocityTim Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06952723922503939504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3046071861494986299.post-4664467228101991212013-03-07T15:43:54.158-08:002013-03-07T15:43:54.158-08:00Tim, Can you explain these conclusions:
1) I sugge...Tim, Can you explain these conclusions:<br />1) I suggest that when faced with scarcity, society responds by fragmenting into elements that compete for scarce resources.<br />2)Alternatively, when society is challenged by uncertainty it turns to communality, seeking to diversify risks. <br /><br />Both are interesting assertions, but I don't follow the logic of arriving at them.<br /><br />Also, what exactly is your point about determinism that Graeber needs to address? I don't see why determinism needs to be addressed in the context of reciprocity?<br /><br />Thank you,<br />DanDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15136541075745913165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3046071861494986299.post-62253212246511145472012-10-15T01:22:16.958-07:002012-10-15T01:22:16.958-07:00I agree that the emergence of individualism pre-da...I agree that the emergence of individualism pre-dated the height of Romanticism, and the Enlightenment had the concept of autonomy. I would suggest that the Romantics did place greater emphasis on individuality, for example the criticisms of the National Academies and the emphasis on individual emotional reactions to phenomena. In addition, the concept of the individual "genius" emerges during the Romantic period (which some argue started in 1755 with the Lisbon Earthquake).<br /><br />Atomism emerges in the Romantic period, and I see nationalism as a form of atomism. It broke up sovereign states, established in the seventeenth century, into nation states.<br /><br />Romanticism had a significant impact on the physical sciences: Humboldt, Darwin, Lewis & Clark were all "Romantic Scientists", and Richard Holmes book "The Age of Wonder" presents a history of British Romantic science. Patricia Fara has written in a more scholarly manner on the impact of Romanticism on physical science.<br /><br />Marx and Darwin, both writing in the midst of Romanticism, make a teleological, deterministic, argument: there may be "noise" in the system but their "scientific" analysis points to a definite future. Neo-classical economics before Knight and Keynes works within the same deterministic framework. I think any scholarship rooted in Marx, Darwin or neo-classical economics either implicitly accepts determinism or needs to address it explicitly. My criticism of Graeber is that he does not do this, and this leaves him open to criticism.Tim Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06952723922503939504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3046071861494986299.post-23344657993711066442012-10-11T00:37:44.543-07:002012-10-11T00:37:44.543-07:00While I fully agree with your remarks regarding Ad...While I fully agree with your remarks regarding Adam Smith (and I reject Pilkington's attempt to pinpoint an individual as single-handedly responsible for the current exaggerated view of individualism), I, frankly, have difficulty seeing the relationship between Romanticism/uncertainty, at one hand, and "economics before the 1920s"/Marxism/Graeber and individualism, at the other.<br /><br />That is so because, although most of classical economics (including Marx) was developed during the Romantic period (19th century), neither the notion of individualism as central feature of human condition start with Romanticism, nor can Romanticism be unequivocally identified with the exaltation of individuality.<br /><br />Enlightenment philosophers, working decades before Romanticism, eventually found political expression in the Declaration of Independence of the USA (1776) and the French Universal Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen (1789), also before the Romantic period. Both documents clearly depict individualism as key element of a desirable social order.<br /><br />Further, nationalism is also a feature of Romanticism. Think for instance of Richard Wagner and his Germanic/Nordic-themed works (and let's remember that the German unification also took place during this period). Clearly, nationalism seems a priori largely opposed to individualism. Orientalism (say, as manifested in Madame Butterfly) has little to do with individualism, and yet, it is also a prominent feature of some Romantic works.<br /><br />So we have that the exaltation of individuality precedes Romanticism and Romanticism cannot be equated exclusively with the exaltation of individuality, anyway. Why should it be considered a definite influence on Marxism and "economics before the 1920s"? After all, Romanticism makes a very good sense when applied to art and literature; the connection seems much more tenuous when extended to other spheres.<br /><br />Regarding uncertainty, while it's true that, to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't play a big role in classical economics (I can't say anything more definite, as I am not an authority on this subject), Graeber does emphasize the importance of mutual obligations out of solidarity, regardless of what his intellectual influences might be and regardless of how he considers uncertainty.<br /><br />However, the point about scarcity, particularly with respect to main stream economics, seems, to me, much more promising.<br />Magpiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07528637318288802178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3046071861494986299.post-78264601789689471982012-10-10T04:50:57.553-07:002012-10-10T04:50:57.553-07:00I've been reading about Steven Pinker's th...I've been reading about Steven Pinker's thesis that we are becoming increasingly less violent as time progresses. A key element of this is likely reciprocal trade. <br /><br />It is rather more difficult to invade a country if they stop exporting the boots for your soldiers:<br /><br />http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/06/airforce-master-sergeant-no-chinese-made-boots-062512/<br /><br />Gary Mulderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00875201935993519510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3046071861494986299.post-74082221441140126312012-10-08T07:41:34.541-07:002012-10-08T07:41:34.541-07:00Wonderful post, and much appreciated! I would jus...Wonderful post, and much appreciated! I would just like to add that in addition to uncertainty, another factor in the mythologizing of individualism is the loss of kinship communities, in which individualism is(generally)seen to be a losing strategy compared to interdependence. The Market Artisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03991645586400858302noreply@blogger.com